“Domestic Discipline is Abuse”

It has been quite a while since either one of us wrote a personal entry (outside of some tidbits here and there on the Five Things posts), so we’ve decided to write one this week to mix things up a bit.  Besides, this is something that I (Clint) have wanted to get off my chest for a while now, for a couple of reasons. One, I think it’s a story a lot of people will be able to relate to, particularly the anti-domestic discipline crowd.  Two, I want to share how the whole DD lifestyle came about for us.  I’ve recently gotten the impression that there are some who believe we’ve always been supportive and “on-board” with domestic discipline, which is not accurate.  Allow me to explain.

My wife and I were introduced to the concept of domestic discipline in 2007.  A friend of mine brought it up to me.  I don’t recall exactly how it came up — I believe I was venting to him about some things my wife (girlfriend at the time) was doing (or not doing) that was causing me a lot of stress and frustration.  Chels and I had only been dating for a few months at this point, so we were still learning about one another and getting comfortable with the way each other “worked.”

Long story short, after listening to my friend explain it, I thought the whole concept of domestic discipline was ridiculous.  I hated it from the moment I heard about it.  My friend did a great job of explaining it all to me and answering my barrage of questions, but like many who first hear of domestic discipline, I jumped to the conclusion that it was abuse, and that it was some kind of BDSM kinky nonsense that I wanted no part of.  Frankly I thought it was stupid and there was no way on earth I was going to boss my girlfriend around and “abuse” her.  That isn’t how a healthy relationship works at all.

The first chance I got I told Chelsea about it.  “Honey, wait ’til you hear THIS!”  She had the same reaction I did.  We mocked the whole concept.  For hours we’d laugh and laugh and laugh about how stupid and ridiculous this was.  “My dinner better be on the table by 7:00pm woman, or you’re going to get it!”  I’d say, with a deep sarcastic tone.  She’d laugh.  I’d laugh.  That’s how we dealt with things we didn’t understand.  Just make fun of it.  So we did, and we did a lot.

I was raised to never strike a woman for any reason.  That’s something my parents instilled within me since I knew that “hitting” was a thing.  Never ever hit a woman.  Ever.  In fact, don’t ever hit anyone.  “Violence is not the way to solve problems,” my parents told me.  Over and over and over again, that’s what I was taught growing up.  You don’t hit a woman.  You just don’t do it.  Period.

So I didn’t.  And, as you can imagine, domestic discipline went against what I was taught by my parents.  You don’t hit women.  That’s just the way it is.  When my friend mentioned that domestic discipline included spanking women, I disregarded it right then and there.  Spanking, in my book, was “hitting.”  My overall thoughts of my friend didn’t change too much, but it’s hard not to have thoughts of, “Wow, he’s kind of an a-hole,” or, “I guess it turns out my friend is a bit of a pervert,” run through your mind.  He was still my friend and I still cared about him dearly, but those thoughts DID cross my mind a time or two.  How could they not?  This was very strange to me, and, like I said, I thought it was an asinine concept.

For weeks I didn’t give it much of a second thought (other than mocking it from time to time), until I spoke to my friend again.  He asked if I had given it any more thought – any more serious thought, that is – to which I informed him that I hadn’t.  He asked why, and since I’m not one to mince words, I told him.  I told him exactly what I thought.  And he laughed at me.  He understood, but he laughed.  He knew I just didn’t “get it.”

  We started talking about it again.  I was still pretty close-minded to the whole thing, but I listened.  He was a man I respected after all, and he was my friend, so his thoughts and opinions carried weight and mattered to me.  I heard him out and really tried to gain a better understanding of why in the world anyone would ever want to live this way.

  This conversation lasted a couple of hours, and by the time it was over, I had a better understanding of domestic discipline.  The picture he painted of it, and the way he explained that he and his wife practiced it, was nothing like what my “conclusions” about the lifestyle had been.  He was talking about care and respect, trust and communication, love and intimacy, protection and leadership.  Not sex and perversion, kink and foreplay, abuse and domination, tyranny and bigotry.  My short-minded preconceived notions of the lifestyle were WAY off, and, after this multiple hour conversation, the light bulb in my brain was starting to flicker.

  Domestic discipline still wasn’t something I could ever see Chels and I doing, but I was starting to understand why others would practice it.  Things were starting to make sense to me.  You don’t spank to get your sexual kicks.  You don’t spank to be a controlling jerk.  You spank to protect, guide, and lead.  I was “getting it.”

  I talked to Chels about it some more, and I was a little more accepting of the concept this time, although not accepting enough to seriously consider practicing.  I was just accepting enough to look a little more into it.  Chels and I both started researching domestic discipline, and the first place we looked was online, naturally.  What a terrible idea.

  After our virtual tour through Pervert City, we put a stop to our “research.”  The Tour-de-Porn was quite lovely and all (not really), but clearly this lifestyle wasn’t for us.  Evidently my friend conveniently left that part out when explaining domestic discipline to me.

Oh great,” he said.  “You looked online.  Yeah..I probably should have warned you about that.

Probably.  Thanks.

  He reassured me that kind of thing wasn’t what living the lifestyle was all about.  He said it was a sexual thing for some, but not for he and his wife.  He, once again, explained how he and his wife practiced domestic discipline, and assured me that it wasn’t sexual in nature at all.  He talked about all the great benefits he and his wife had experienced since starting with the lifestyle, and how he couldn’t imagine his marriage without it now.  Hmm.  Maybe there was something to this “crazy” lifestyle.  A man I had come to respect a great deal wouldn’t talk to me about something so passionately if he didn’t think it would help me and Chelsea.  That much I knew for a fact.

  So, yet again, Chels and I talked about this for hours.  Maybe it was worth a shot.  What’s the worst that could happen?  We figured we could try it for a while, I’d probably spank Chels once or twice, and if we hated it, then we’d stop.  No big deal.  Right? 

  After working through a lot of hesitations and concerns, we mutually decided to give it a shot.  Chels was more adamant about trying it than I was, but we figured we had virtually nothing to lose, and from the sound of it, everything to gain.  So we started practicing domestic discipline.  The rest, as they say, is history.  We haven’t looked back since.

  I wanted to write my story of first learning of domestic discipline to illustrate to those so vehemently against the lifestyle that I know EXACTLY how they feel.  I know exactly how they feel because I’ve been there before. 

  At one point in my life, I thought domestic discipline was abuse too.  At one point in my life, I thought domestic discipline was some sort of term couples used to mask their kinky desires too.  At one point in my life, I thought it was some sort of cover for Christians to get their sexual kicks without feeling guilty about it too.  I’ve been there before.  I’ve thought that before.  I truly know exactly what it’s like to have those thoughts and feelings. 

Well, I’m here to tell you that I was wrong.  I was very, very wrong.

Domestic discipline, when lived and practiced correctly, is a beautiful thing for a relationship.  I’m not going to go into the reasons why I feel that way in this blog entry since they’re already written about all over this blog (if you’d like links to those posts, please ask in the comments).  I don’t know if this entry will make those against domestic discipline feel any better about it, and frankly I don’t really care.  For a lot of people once their mind is made up, it’s made up.  And that’s fine.  But I tell you what — it felt good to write this post and I’m glad that I did.

  If you’re against domestic discipline, I just want you to know that I was too once upon a time.  And I wasn’t just against it, I thought it was flat out disgusting.  I was appalled by it.  I thought it was just as outrageous as you probably do.  But I didn’t understand it.  I jumped to a conclusion about it without learning or understanding what it was.  I heard “spank your wife” and immediately wrote it off as abuse without giving it a second thought, or a legitimate chance.  Again, I was wrong.  I was downright ignorant, and I hate that I judged something so quickly without fully understanding it.  Looking back on it, it’s really embarrassing and rather shameful that I was THAT close-minded toward a concept I’d never heard of before and knew nothing about.

I won’t be making that mistake again.

– Clint

© 2013 Learning Domestic Discipline

44 thoughts on ““Domestic Discipline is Abuse”

  1. Wonderfully thought out and well said. So many DO jump to that
    conclusion without taking the time to find out more about it.
    Maybe this will help some of those people understand. The title is certainly eye-catching! Others will just never understand no matter what because they choose not to.

    Thanks!
    quiet sara

    1. Thank you, quiet sara. I’m glad you enjoyed the article. We chose not to understand the lifestyle when first learning of it too, but, obviously, we’re glad we decided to learn more about it and ultimately give it a shot.

      We appreciate you sharing your thoughts. All the best.

      — Clint & Chelsea

  2. Clint, thank you for your thoughtful post. As my husband and I make our way in DD, we appreciate hearing from those who are using this lifestyle to make their marraige better. We are big walkers and this morning, we discussed your post and our kind of DD for our entire hour and a half walk. Yes there are now spankings, but there is a great deal more and better communication. Amazing how this works especially in our marriage which has been around for a long time!
    Meredith

    1. Wow, that’s wonderful! Communication is a big part of what makes the domestic discipline dynamic beneficial, and it’s great to hear that you and your husband can talk to each other about it so easily. There are many who struggle to communicate, so it sounds like you two are a step ahead in that department.

      Thank you for sharing your experience, Meredith. All the best to you and yours.

      — Clint (& Chelsea)

  3. Anyone can pretty much justify anything they want in life. What I think DD’s are missing is that Eve was created from Adam’s rib, symbolic of a side by side walk with each other. She wasn’t taken from his foot or head…etc. She was to be a helpmate, a companion. With the fall of Adam and Eve in the garden, God foretold what would happen to the woman ultimately, on earth–the man would rule over her and be her taskmaster instead of her equal and companion as He had originally planned. DD treats women in that fallen way, a way God never intended. It treats her as subservient and beholden to man, worthy of unequal punishment.
    Who spanks you when you fail and fall short?

    1. Your comment/question seems geared more to those that use Christianity as a base for why they practice domestic discipline. My wife and I do not. Your question would probably be better answered by those that take the Christian angle on the lifestyle rather than ourselves, but I’ll still do my best to answer your question as best as I can.

      Your question depends on which domestic discipline dynamic you’ve incorporated into your relationship. There are three dynamics — traditional, female led, and the Spencer Plan dynamic.

      In the traditional dynamic, the male is the head of the household and the female is the submissive partner. The submissive partner is the one physically punished in this dynamic in the form on spanking, and the head of the household is not physically punished. Those who practice DD based on their Christian faith typically opt for this dynamic as it follows the Biblical concept that the husband is the head of the wife.

      In a female led domestic discipline dynamic, the roles of each partner are reversed. The female in the relationship is the head of the household while the male is the submissive partner. In this dynamic, the male is the one physically punished in the form of spanking, while the female is not.

      In the Spencer Plan dynamic, both partners hold each other accountable as if there are two heads of the household. The male partner punishes the female partner when she breaks a rule, and the female partner punishes the male partner when he breaks a rule. We’ve written about the Spencer Plan before, which you can find here:

      http://learningdd.com/blog/alternative-domestic-discipline-dynamics-the-spencer-plan/

      So, as you can see, your question depends on which domestic discipline dynamic any given couple has consented to.

      If your question is specifically for us, my wife and I have consensually agreed to practice domestic discipline under the traditional dynamic, therefore I am not physically punished in the form of spankings. We’ve written a couple of posts that elaborate on your general question:

      Written by my wife: http://learningdd.com/blog/the-womans-perspective-what-if-my-husband-breaks-a-rule/

      Written by me: http://learningdd.com/blog/faqs-husband-accountability-edition/

      Keep in mind that both of those articles were written under the assumption of a traditional domestic discipline dynamic since that dynamic is far and away the most common in the lifestyle.

      I hope I’ve helped to clarify things a bit for you. I’ve done so as thoroughly as I could. Again, you may want to ask your question to a couple that bases their domestic discipline practices on Christianity, as that appeared to be the primary focus of your comment.

      All the best to you and yours.

      — Clint (& Chelsea)

  4. Thanks for sharing this Clint. I actually think most men who live this lifestyle were also brought up with the same moral of ‘never hit a woman’. They’re really the ones we as wives want, they don’t hit, they spank.

    The big difference here is that you were man enough to admit being closed minded.

    Callie

    1. Thanks, Callie. It wasn’t easy to accept this lifestyle and it took quite some time for me to get to that point. I was fortunate enough to have a patient friend that answered all my questions, and I tend to research things I’m learning about by more than most, so those two things made it much easier to get to the point of accepting DD as a option for our relationship and ultimately consenting to it.

      Thank you for your comment. They’re always appreciated. All the best.

      — Clint (& Chelsea)

  5. There’s a huge difference between a “hit” and “spank”. I know this from personal experience. My first marriage was mentally, verbally, and physically abusive. It’s a miracle that I can even be in a DD relationship with spanking. I don’t believe that DD treats a woman in a fallen way. Abuse and domestic violence does that. DD is concensual between two people. I do get “spanked” occasionally, but not that much because of what I was taught as a youngster. Mouthing off was a no-no! It’s disrespectful. Can’t say something nice then don’t say it.

    My husband and I have a dynamic that calls for “mutual respect and accountability.” DD doesn’t give him the right to run rough-shod over me. I’d call him out on it! He’ll own up if he messes up, too. If the mess up was a mutual thing, there is no spanking for me because we both were wrong. We come together in love and communication to help each other. That’s what we call our DD.

    1. Hello Kat,

      I’m terribly sorry to hear about your first marriage. I can’t imagine what you’ve been through, and I’m so happy to hear that you were able to get out of that situation. It takes a very strong woman to do so, and I commend you for having the courage and bravery to do it. Good for you!

      There’s no doubt in my mind that your DD dynamic is shared by many in the lifestyle. There should always be mutual respect and accountability, just as you’ve described, in any domestic discipline relationship. It sounds like you two are experiencing how wonderful the lifestyle can be when practiced correctly, and I, for one, am so happy to hear it. :)

      Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. All the best to you.

      — Clint (& Chelsea)

    2. I think that Kat makes an important point about a DD wife’s option (or perhaps duty) to respectfully call her husband to account when he does something wrong or unwise. While a DD husband is not going to be subject to punishment from his wife, he is still accountable to his wife in the sense of being obligated to honestly acknowledge his failures to her and to listen to her fair minded criticism of his conduct. I personally believe that a DD husband should recognize that sometimes his behavior gives his wife the right to be angry at him. That does not mean that a woman who is always getting angry cannot be corrected for excessive shows of anger, or that a wife ever has a wife to indulge in truly disrespectful behavior. It does mean that a DD wife is entitled to express her honest opinions to her husband, even if they may involve criticism of his conduct.

      1. Thanks, James. I read many blogs and forum posts in various places and find that some wives feel that there doesn’t need to be mutual accountability and respect. I thought that was part of a good marriage. None of us are perefect and we all make mstakes. I truly think DD comes down to action instead of RE-action. To me RE-action is saying and doing things without thinkng first. Assuming what someone else will do and say doesn’t help either.

        Communication is the key. Communication with mutual respect and acountability.

        Kat

        :-)

  6. I am glad that you explained it all, Clint, and I’m not going to say it definitely isn’t right and/or for me. I am curious, though, why don’t husbands get spanked when they do something wrong, too? I am thinking it’s because they are considered the HOH (head of household), but I think we all know a lot of men who are inconsiderate, don’t follow directions and misbehave, in addition to other things, as much or even more then their wives do. So when husbands screw up, maybe even badly, what happens to them? They are responsible for making it right between themself and God and their wife, is what I am guessing. But how come women are punished–spanked even–for doing the same kinds of things? That does seem to be unequal and incorrect to me. If you were able to literally (not just in prayer) talk to God and/or Christ, do you think you would get a favorable verdict on domestic discipline? I somehow doubt it.

    1. Hello Kitty,

      You’ve asked a very common question, and a very similar one to a previous commenter. As I said to the previous commenter, your question seems more Christian based and would probably be better suited to be answered by a couple that uses Christianity as the base for their domestic discipline. There are sites that focus on Christianity in domestic discipline, if you’d like to look into them. Here are a couple:

      http://www.christiandomesticdiscipline.com/

      http://www.christiandomesticdiscipline.net/

      Those websites may be able to answer your question(s) a little better than I can, but I would answer your questions exactly as I did to the previous commenter (Laila). I encourage you to read over my response to her as it addresses the same question/concern you have.

      Wishing all the best to you and yours.

      — Clint (& Chelsea)

  7. Kitty brings up a great point. When does the husband get spanked?
    Another question I have is, if you feel that discipline is in order and your wife feels that what she did was not in fact wrong and she was justified in her actions, can she say “no, I’m not getting spanked for this”?
    What happens if she refuses?

    1. Hello Ron,

      Respectfully, you’re the third person that has asked the same question on this blog entry (“when does the husband get spanked?”), so rather than elaborate on it again, I would direct you to my response to a previous commenter (Laila) for my answer/response to your first question.

      To your second question — part of what it means, and what is necessary and required to be a head of the household in a domestic discipline relationship, is to gather all information about what happened prior to any punishment in order to make an informed and educated decision based on the facts/circumstances of the situation. That may lead to punishment and it may not, but, in a domestic discipline relationship, the head of the household is ALWAYS advised to hear the submissive partner’s side of the story and gather all relevant information about the situation before making a determination on whether or not it is appropriate or fair to punish. This is why it is absolutely paramount that a couple have a healthy, calm and mature discussion ahead of time before and punishment is administered. The last thing a head of the household wants to do is punish unfairly or unjustly.

      If the submissive partner is upset and has a very legitimate and valid reason for feeling as though punishment is unjust or unfair given the circumstances, then so be it. No punishment would be administered. Again, the head of the household in a domestic discipline relationship makes final decisions (including whether or not to punish) based on the discussion between partners ahead of time, based on all information gathered that is relevant to the problem, and based on the circumstances of the problem/infraction/situation.

      I hope this helped to clarify things a bit. If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask.

      All the best to you and yours.

      — Clint (& Chelsea)

  8. Hi Clint & Chelsea!

    This was an awesome post! There are so many people who shun this lifestyle simply because they themselves do not understand it (some even commented here). I say “Too bad for them”, as I think they simply do not know what they’re missing (my opinion of course).

    Keep these beautiful posts coming!

    ~Pink~

    1. Thank you, Pink. We appreciate you offering your thoughts.

      All the best to you and yours,

      — Clint (& Chelsea)

  9. Clint, my husband and I have a scripturally based DD dynamic, but we do not call it Christian Domestic Discipline.

    I would suggest your readers to refer to Paul’s teachings in various parts of the New Testament. However, I will say that anyone can interpret the scriptures any way they please. We believe God speaks to everyone through his word, but He meets a person where they are. If He doesn’t feel they are ready for something, it’s not time yet. Plus, we can close our minds and hearts if it’s something we aren’t comfortable with.

    My husband and I have no trouble with him being the HoH. Scripture directs him to be the head of the wive as Christ is the head of the church. Christ loves his church so the husband is to love his wife. Does Christ have discipline within the church? We believe there is because God lets us face the consequences of our actions. Who has God placed in authority in His church? There are pastors, elders, teachers, etc. Who has the God given authority in the home? That goes to the husband. The husband is to have a loving authority. Does this mean no discipline for bad behavior? We don’t think so. Discipline can take many forms – dd uses several. It’s up to each couple to decide what discipline they choose to use.

    As for the wife, God’s word teaches that she is to love, respect and honor her husband, but the word also says she is to submit to him. Submit simply means to yield or defer to, but it’s done willingly. It takes a strong and courageous woman to submit. A submissive woman is not a doormat. If an HoH (husband) treats his wife this way, he isn’t honoring God’s directive to him.

    For a mariage to work, God’s word wants a couple to come together as one. He knows we weren’t perfect and that there will be many mistakes. If here is no one to answer to, how can a marraige work?

    I hope this helps.

    Kat

    :-)

    1. Hi Kat,

      It was very kind (and helpful) of you to take the time to share this comment. We appreciate it, and we hope others do as well.

      All the best to you and yours,

      — Clint (& Chelsea)

  10. Clint, I think you should do more of these personal types of posts, great job! I’m also hoping you’re okay with me hijacking your blog for a second to further answer Laila, Kitty, and Ron just from my perspective, from living the traditional dynamic for the last three years:

    I think all three of you are basing your questions on a common misunderstanding. Most people think when they first learn about this dynamic that it’s about some narcissistic brute having his wife at his feet or beating her because she burnt his dinner or something. And that’s not what it is at all. I don’t think that every man can or should be an HOH. There are men out there who are selfish and uncaring, and I wouldn’t even trust them with the care of a goldfish. Most men in this lifestyle are HOH’s because their wives want them to be, and they’re just as reluctant at first as Clint was. But when they see they’re wives respond to it, they respond too, and begin to change, sometimes drastically. Being an HOH is a heavy responsibility, and a good man takes that very seriously. Whether he realizes it or not, he becomes more careful that he is a leader worth following, holding himself to a higher standard, becoming more cherishing, more encouraging, more in tune with his wife’s needs, and more into making sure in everything he does that his wife knows she is the center of his world. This is why I stayed in this lifestyle after just wanting to try it temporarily to help with something I was going through, because I was absolutely shocked at the change in my husband, and therefore the change in our relationship. We had a relationship like everyone else I know, and I felt unimportant. He was self-centered. We fought all the time, and avoided each other. But he changed almost overnight, and continued to change into the man he is today, the amazing loving most wonderful husband that I’m not ashamed to say I respect and admire more than anyone in the world. He’s not over me or more important than me. Even though I might joke about it on occasion, I never actually feel like he’s my taskmaster. He helps me with getting things done, yes. But because I’ve asked him to. I never feel like a child, either. It’s just different, it’s hard to describe. Basically though, just because we’ve agreed on having different roles, doesn’t mean that we’re unequal in any way. I don’t feel less than, ever. In fact, quite the opposite. I feel cherished and important. We don’t fight anymore or stonewall or have secrets from each other. Or if we do fight it’s over quickly. No resentment. There’s no point. We communicate all the time about everything that bothers us, and we’re completely connected. There’s an intimacy in DD that’s impossible to describe, and it extends farther than the bedroom. It’s there while a spanking is happening, massively right after, but also day to day. I feel heard in a way that I didn’t before DD. Every rule he makes he makes sure is not selfish, but for the good of our family and our relationship. We’re mostly talking basic things though, like not being mean to each other. Being responsible. Being honest with each other. Not ignoring him like he’s not important to me. But yes, sometimes we do disagree. And he always listens to my side. Sometimes he adjusts his verdict. And other times, he explains his viewpoint more fully, and after looking at it more objectively, I come to the conclusion on my own that he was right all along. Or sometimes it was just a misunderstanding, and then we try to find a way to prevent it in the future.

    If my husband messes up and it’s small, then he admits it and tries to make it right. If what I did was a reaction to what he did, then most often he just lets it go. My husband has messed up though, even to the point where I’ve temporarily pulled my consent for DD to continue. And I’ve watched him try to recover from messing up so badly, and try to redeem himself in my eyes. If I do something wrong, we address it, and it’s over. If he does something wrong, it’s a lot bigger deal. He tries hard to re-earn my trust and respect. I actually think I have it easier, lol. I don’t want that burden of responsibility he has.

    The thing is, good HOH’s don’t lead by being domineering, they lead with servant leadership, making sure they’re good examples and that they’re worthy of the trust their wives place in them. They make sure their wives feel cherished and taken care of, even if it means sacrificing what they want. And yes, they hold their wives accountable to be the best they can be, just as all of us have consented to, or even asked for. I don’t think it’s a dynamic for everybody, but I can say it works great for us.

    1. Hi Kay,

      You’re right – we should do more of these personal posts. We’ll certainly consider doing more of them in the future.

      You’ve expressed yourself well, and we appreciate you talking the time to do so. Thank you. It is our hope that your comment helps clarify things for those that may be new to the concept of domestic discipline.

      All the best to you and yours,

      — Clint (& Chelsea)

  11. How do you decide what your wife does is “wrong.” I was lead to some of these articles through a blog post and I was shocked to learn about it. I can’t imagine a woman being submissive to anyone and why she would want to do it? And honestly, beating a woman and then comforting her after? I was in an abusive situation where I was beaten severely and the day a man lays his fingers on me now, is the day I break his hand. I don’t submit to anyone and I don’t take a beating for being out of line. You explain all you want and it still doesn’t make sense for someone who was against hitting women to do it. Does she get to beat you when you’re out of line? Or is it just because women are supposed to be inferior to men? Guess what… I’m the bread winner in my family and if my husband ever raised a hand on me or questioned my judgement on an issue important to me he would be gone. I have autonomy, therefore I can make my own decisions and don’t need someone to be the final decision maker for me. I’m in control of my own life, he’s in control of his own life. We come together to make mutually respected/agreed upon decisions and we are happy.

    1. We strongly discourage, nor do we advise, recommend, or condone those in domestic discipline relationships, to break hands (or any other bones) as a form of punishment.

      We’ve mutually consented to the traditional domestic discipline dynamic for our own personal marriage. For an explanation of the traditional domestic discipline dynamic, please refer to our response to an earlier commenter (Laila). She, as well as a few others, have asked very similar questions to yours, which we answered in our response to Laila.

      We’ve never said “women are supposed to be inferior to men” anywhere on our website. We strongly disagree with that statement. We encourage you to visit archived posts and read a little more about the domestic discipline lifestyle. We think you’ll find that the majority of the LDD articles do not resemble recent media articles portraying this lifestyle to be all about Christianity and the interpretation of a few select scriptures. In fact, we make it quite clear that is not the case.

      We’re delighted to hear that you’re happy in your marriage. We are happy in ours as well. We understand domestic discipline is not for everyone.

      Thank you for taking the time comment and share your thoughts. We wish you and yours nothing but the best in all that you do going forward.

      Warm regards,

      — Clint & Chelsea

  12. There are certain boundaries that should never be exceeded.
    wOne of these is to hit your wife. I write deliberately hitting, to spank means with hand. Using different tools to provide more pain and hit harder …. until the woman can barely cope receive, crying in pain, can be called just “to beat.” What happened to honest:
    • Confession
    • Sincere Apology
    • Make Amends
    • Self-Correct

    Like most adults do? To beat your wife and call it to lead …
    Your parents taught you right. How could you deviate from it?

    1. Two things you’re failing to realize are that domestic discipline is a consensual practice between two adults, and in most domestic discipline relationships, it’s the submissive partner who wants the dynamic in their relationship the most.

      You’re also focusing an awful lot on the spanking aspect of domestic discipline. Would you feel the same about a domestic discipline relationship that does not include spanking? Not all of them do.

      I agree with you – my parents did teach my right. Where we disagree is on whether or not the terms “hitting” and “spanking” mean the same thing. It is apparent to me you feel that they do. However in my opinion, they are not the same thing. To be brief, “hitting” is done in anger with intent to harm, while “spanking” is done while calm with intent to lovingly correct. We can argue semantics for hours, but that’s a very brief explanation on the difference between the two actions, in my personal opinion. I understand you likely disagree, and that’s completely understandable. I’m not here to change your mind.

      How could I deviate from what my parents taught me? Well, when I saw how badly my wife wanted this dynamic in our relationship, and how passionately she was expressing that to me, I agreed to look further into it. There aren’t many things my wife has ever wanted as badly as she wanted domestic discipline after she took the time to learn about it. Once I learned more about it and understood it, I agreed to give it a try in large part to make my wife happy. And it has. It has made us both tremendously happy.

      I hope I’ve answered your questions. Wishing you and yours all the best.

      — Clint

  13. I was on vacation and just found the article that led to this post. Ita with everything you said, Clint. DD isn’t for everyone. It wasn’t even for us at one point, and that was literally the most unhappy we have ever been in our marriage. DD saved our marriage not once, but twice. Once the fault was mine, the second time it was my husbands. What happened isn’t important, what IS important is that we are almost 18 years happily married thanks to CDD. Wonderful post, thank you as always.

    1. We’ve been on vacation as well! We hope you had a wonderful time on your getaway. :)

      It is certainly important to understand that DD isn’t for everyone, and although it may sound “crazy” when first hearing of it, there are many who stand behind the lifestyle wholeheartedly. My wife and I being one of those couples, obviously. We’re as happy as we’ve ever been, and we wouldn’t do anything differently when it comes to DD in our marriage. Our only regrets with DD are that we didn’t start it sooner, and that we judged it before fulling understanding what it was.

      Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Thia. Warm wishes to you and yours.

      — Clint (& Chelsea)

      1. Thank you, Clint, we did have a wonderful time! Hope you and Chelsea did also!

        Count us in the standing behind the lifestyle group. Connor and I are in this for the long haul. We wouldn’t change how things have panned out at all, except maybe that we would have continued DD rather than stopped it for the 2 years we did. But it was a necessity, and I refuse to regret it since things have turned out well in the end.

        Blessings to you both, Thia

  14. I want to practice this but im not sure how to ask my husband. I think he might be mad and thonk it as abusive. How do I get hom to see that its not?

    1. Hello Mystie,

      You’ve asked a very popular question and one we’ve addressed a couple of times here on the LDD blog. Here are some links that you may find helpful:

      Written by myself (Clint): http://learningdd.com/blog/getting-the-husband-on-board-with-domestic-discipline/

      Written by my wife (Chelsea): http://learningdd.com/blog/how-to-convince-your-spouse-to-try-dd-after-the-talk-part-3/

      I encourage you to read over those posts as they address your question in greater length/detail. If after reading them you still have questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.

      Wishing you the best of luck.

      — Clint (& Chelsea)

  15. Okay,
    Clint (& Chelsea). Every time I read you signature I’m reminded of the submissive aspect of the thing you call Domestic Discipline. A few things in your story Irk me and I find your explanations in the comments have misdirection where I would expect to find answers. One thing I found disturbing is how does (Chelsea) go from being the outside party during your dialogue with your respected friend to the one adamant about you two trying this lifestyle. You explain your thought process pretty thoroughly but (Chelsea)’s opinion seems to come out of a several hour conversation you had with her.

    Secondly, you keep referring people to your response to Laila when you never actually addressed the root of her and many other people’s questions which seem to be “How do you justify being the dominant member of your houshold?” You say communication is important, no one can argue with that. But why does punishment have to accompany it (physical or otherwise)? Communication is not caused by punishment it’s something that can happen naturally BY TALKING.

    Domestic partnership is a relationship where two people live together while acknowledging each other as equals. Domestic abuse is where one partner is physically or verbally dominant over another through a balance between abuse and comfort. Domestic Discipline seems to be Diet Domestic Abuse.

    As an Eagle Scout I’m more than familiar with the concepts of leadership and compromise. Doling out punishment does not make someone a leader (it makes them a bully), correcting behavior by assuming dominance is not how people compromise. Domestic Discipline is not the enlightened state of a relationship, though you may think it works for you. But by engaging in it, you’re bullying problems away rather than approaching them rationally.

    MY ACTUAL QUESTION: Since you’re non-religious, why did you (& your wife) choose the traditional form of DD? Furthermore, why are the other forms unappealing to you (& your wife)?

    1. Hello VoiceOfReason,

      It took several months before we even considered living the domestic discipline lifestyle after first learning of it. My wife and I had several conversations about it during that time frame before agreeing to give it a try. Throughout those conversations I was against it (although I came to understand it and accept it..I just didn’t think it would work for us), and it was only after my wife had done research of her own and come to the conclusion on her own that it was worth trying that she encouraged me to try it with her (to which I obviously agreed). So it wasn’t an overnight, one conversation thing. It took several months for us to agree to try domestic discipline.

      How do I justify being the dominant member of my household? Because that’s what my wife and I both mutually agreed would be the best dynamic for us. I don’t really know what answer you’re looking for here. It was a mutual decision between my wife and I. She wasn’t comfortable with being the head of the house, and she wanted that role to be mine. I felt the exact same way. We both felt this was the best dynamic for us. It felt at the time, and still feels to this day, natural to us. It also is in accordance with our faith.

      Punishment accompanies communication for a number of reasons. Punishment is emotionally cleansing for my wife. What I mean by that is any guilt she is feeling, or disappointment in herself, or frustration with the situation, etc. is all let go after a punishment. She feels forgiven. There’s no emotional burden to carry any longer. The issue has been addressed and we move on. No tension or guilt for hours, sometimes days, at a time from either of us.

      Punishments, particularly spankings, offer emotional connection as well. I feel closer emotionally to my wife after a punishment, and she feels the same way. It’s a deeper level of emotional bonding between us. When you go through something so intimate with the one you love, you become closer, emotionally, to them as a result. That’s how it is for us, anyway.

      Domestic discipline may “seem” like Diet Domestic Abuse to you, but I think, after you learn more about the lifestyle and why people live it, and truly gain a full and complete understanding of it, you’ll feel differently. Women in this lifestyle WANT this. Women are the initiators of domestic discipline in their relationships most of the time. Take time to visit the domestic discipline blogs written by women and ask them who initiated/wanted domestic discipline in their relationships. You’ll quickly see that most of them wanted it and presented it to their partner. My wife was the one that put the domestic discipline plan into action for our relationship. Many others have the same story. To jump to the conclusion that this lifestyle is abusive is incredibly presumptuous.

      Obviously I completely disagree with your bullying assumptions. Problems in our marriage are always approached rationally. How to work through them or deal with them is carefully calculated and extensively thought out. If anything, I over-think things. Please do not presume my immediate resolution to a problem is to punish my wife. That’s ridiculous. That, once again, would be an assumption, and an incorrect one at that.

      Where did I say we were not religious? My wife and I have stated multiple times that we are Christian people. That does not mean we use our faith to justify domestic discipline, nor do we base what we do when it comes to domestic discipline, on our faith. It’s very to easy to understand. We’re Christian people, but we do not practice domestic discipline because we think it will please God or anything of the sort. We practice this lifestyle because it makes us happy. That’s really all there is to it. What anyone’s beliefs are is completely irrelevant when it comes to domestic discipline, in my opinion.

      I’ve answered your “actual question” above (in the second paragraph).

      Thank you for your questions, VoiceOfReason. I hope they’ve helped you to gain a little more understanding about the lifestyle, and how my marriage works. I wish you and yours nothing but the best in all that you do going forward.

      Warmest regards,

      — Clint

  16. My girlfriend has introduced this
    Concept to me. And frankly its a lot to take in. We have been dating for four
    Months. What are some ways to ease into this concept and when should a
    Beginning couple start to practice it?
    At this point in my life I’m trying to find financial stability and get my life style in check so I’m prepared for the future and
    A family that may come with it. I love this women and want to give this concept my all for her. I just need a guide lol

  17. Abuse is anything that offends feminist sensibilities.

    Portraying spanking as abusive is part of a two-pronged strategy. The other offensive is to paint spanking as pornographic. Together, the two elements represent an attempt to discredit traditional male dominance in the home.

    While opinions may differ, “domestic discipline” is little more than a late 20th century euphemism for a man spanking his wife. The expression originated as a counterpoint after the term “domestic violence” officially entered the English language in 1976. Prior to the Sexual Revolution of mid-1960s, “wife spanking,” or just “spanking” as it was more commonly known in the mid-20th century, was not widely considered abusive per se. Even incidental bruising of a woman’s derriere was unofficially tolerated in a era when divorce was seen as being far more detrimental to the social fabric of society. Unless it transgressed into the arena of abuse, spanking was generally considered to be a family matter.

    Abuse or “wife beating” typically occurred when a man’s attempts to physically discipline a woman weren’t confined to her gluteal (buttocks) and/or proximal posterior femoral (back of upper thighs) regions, or any bruising associated therewith was obviously gratuitous. The old rule of thumb, which had nothing to do with the size of the stick used to beat one’s wife, was that if a woman had been previously warned, or should have known better, and if the man only spanked or reasonably whipped the woman’s buttocks, then the disciplining was not considered to be abusive.

    An occasional well-deserved and privately administered moderate thrashing was considered to be part of a normal and healthy marriage serving as a counterbalance to nagging of deceit. Some early marriage counseling books went so far as to say the practice should not cause any undue concern. At the same time, it was not unheard of for a young woman to marry a man after winding up over his lap with her panties down after she engaged in some unladylike frolic. Rather than being considered abuse, the episode was viewed as evidence of a platonic concern for her welfare.

    It is worth pointing out that, prior to the proliferation of anti-spanking research and propaganda begun in mid-1980s, the vast majority of girls grew up having been bent over by their father or other male relative at some point during their childhood. Even a daughter having to take a spanking in her teens, and in some cases even into her early 20s, was considered to be a normal part of growing up. For the most part, girls of yesteryear knew how to take a spanking. They knew what to expect from the man as well as what was expected of them.

    Likewise, cross-gender spanking did not always carry the baggage of Freudian eros that burdens it today. Consequently, although frequently prefaced by awkward preliminaries, actually getting spanked by a man was by no means synonymous with being raped in the minds of most women.

    Meanwhile, post-modern men and women face the unenviable task of having to rediscover the old rules of the love and marriage game. For many, it is proving to be a perilous journey filled with timid men and frustrated women.

    Even in the early 21st century, most introspective women are aware that their are times in their lives when they deserve a good spanking. Whether they will share to those insights with a man is another matter. Those willing to take that risk tend to have longer lasting and better relationships than might otherwise be possible.

    1. Thank you for the background, Experienced Husband! I appreciate the perspective of someone who understands the history of what we now call “domestic discipline.” It is very interesting how the family dynamic and marriage has evolved. Being born in the 1980’s, I had a childhood where spanking was really demonized. I am one of four children who all had the “benefit” of having “enlightened” parents who wouldn’t dream of spanking their children and I’m certain my parents wouldn’t have engaged in spanking in their marriage either. While I do not feel that spanking is a necessary part of parenting or marriage, I do feel that I really crave discipline as an adult. My husband and I have been practicing domestic discipline for about 6 months and I have had to endure a handful of spankings during that time and I would just like it say, it is certainly the lesser evil in any relationship. When I think about how many times in my marriage (especially in the beginning) where I stormed off during a fight, got in the car and drove around the block, came back and continued to huff and puff, thrown my wedding ring, and many other “top-shelf drama” acts of agression (as my husband calls them) and just got away with it, I realize how much less respect I had for my husband for taking it all. If we had known about domestic discipline from the beginning or if things were “as they used to be,” I probably wouldn’t have behaved that way and I think we all would have been better off for it! I don’t care what all the haters on this comment section says, domestic discipline and spanking included, is not abuse! I think some people fail to realize that every marriage is different and every person is different. Even if you’re perfect and you’re marriage is perfect and you never treat each other with any disrespect and you never make any mistakes and you communicate well, it is a mistake to think that all other people are like that. My husband and I were high school sweethearts and we got married very young (about 6 years ago so we are still young), so we haven’t got it all figured out yet. Domestic discipline has helped us in so many ways. We definitely communicate better. We fight less and more fairly. We express our love for each other more. I just can’t help but feel like this was always the way a man and women were always meant to be together.

  18. You have wonderfully structed the dynamic and beliefs in an LDD relationship. Having been open about my need to be disciplined that I had been aware of since childhood, I commend you, my friend. Also, there is a huge difference between domestic discipline and abuse. I know this personally, because I have experienced both sides as well.

    The key thing to remember here, being that DD is consensual, while abuse never is. There is a difference between your partner wanting what’s best for you, and applying it lovingly in safe areas of the body, and being beaten for being worthless and inferior. A woman in a traditional LDD bond is not inferior, is equal in all ways, just expresses the need for appropriately placed discipline in her life. I know personally, for me, it takes a large weight off my shoulders, often relieves stress or guilt, and helps me feel empowered and balanced. This is how it should always be in a DD relationship.

    While the scolding/lecturing and the discipline itself is a big characteristic for this type of relationship, one of the most important parts to me is the aftercare — the holding, cradling, warm love and forgiveness it provides. It shows you’re partner that you care, that you love them, and only want what is mutually better for your lives, her own life, and her life with others (i.e. family and friends).

    All the best to you, Clint (and Chelsea). I am so glad you have written an article about something you genuinely care about, and experienced, with obvious great care and thought.

    Thank you.

    1. Hello Dee,

      Your comment was very well written and very well said. Thank you. Everything you said within it I agree with and I appreciate you taking the time to express your thoughts. I’m glad you enjoyed the article!

      Wishing you and yours the very best.

      — Clint

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